CLEVELAND, Ohio — Jack is back, and the Guardians’ path to a repeat title in the American League Central Division just got a bit harder. Jack Flaherty’s reunion with the Tigers gives Detroit two marquee starters as he rejoins Tarik Skubal at the front of AJ Hinch’s rotation. Flaherty was 2-1 in four starts against the Guards last season with a 1.07 ERA and 22 strikeouts in 25 1/3 innings.
On Monday’s podcast, Paul Hoynes and Joe Noga look at just how much harder Flaherty makes the prospects of a repeat for Cleveland, along with five other factors that could determine the Guardains’ divisional success.
Listen and read along with an AI-generated transcript of the podcast below.
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Joe Noga 0:04 Welcome back to the Cleveland Baseball Talk podcast. I’m Joe noga. Joined by Paul Hoynes hoinze. There’s news in the division. News in the American League Central the Tigers have signed Jack Flaherty free agent pitcher. He’s he’s actually back with the Tigers after they traded him at the deadline to Los Angeles. He comes back on a two year, $35 million deal. What did you think of the news when you saw that the Tigers reunited with Flaherty? Mere months after trading him away at the at the trade deadline.
Paul Hoynes 0:43 Yeah, the that collective sigh you heard from the shores of Lake Erie. Joe came from Cleveland’s hitters. They’ve got to face this guy. They thought he was out of their out of their hair for a while. But you know Jack Flaherty is back with the Tigers, and we saw a lot of him last season. Joe, he may in four starts against Cleveland, he went two and one with a 1.07 ERA. He allowed three earned runs in 25 and a third. Innings. So you know that’s not good news for Cleveland’s hitters.
Joe Noga 1:18 No, and and Flaherty seemed to give Detroit exactly what Cleveland kind of needed last year. You know, Detroit goes out and signs him at the, you know, ahead of last season and you know, he comes in and and brings that stability to the rotation that. That they really needed and he was doing it off of, you know, some some injuries, some doubts, some, you know, sort of like a show me, you know, approve it sort of contract and deal. He goes out and does that, then gets traded to the the Dodgers and helps them win a World Series. But, but no real takers for, like, a big free agent contract after that. So he winds up back with the team that that had signed him originally at the start of last season.
Paul Hoynes 2:07 Joan, you’ve got to think. I mean you, you’ve got to be. I would, if you’re the Tigers front office, you know you obviously you can’t foretell the future, but if they had held on to him at the deadline and had this kind of second-half they they had and pairing him with Tarek Scoble, they they might have been in.
Joe Noga 2:19 OK.
Paul Hoynes 2:28 The World Series the way they. Were so hot, you know, and in all likelihood, they they may have beaten the guardians in the ALDS.
Joe Noga 2:35 Yeah, that’s that. That’s the big thing. They would have been able to, you know, throw a little more depth from their rotation. Other than doing bullpen games in the playoffs, which was, you know, what they wound up doing and and really what Cleveland wound up doing in in part, in a lot of ways, but. You know, Flaherty would have given them a chance to to go deeper in that series, maybe with their starting pitching so. Yeah, it’s a big move. It’s it’s one that affects the guardians. And will have an impact on the Guardians and the race for the AL Central. But again, it’s only a two year deal. I think he makes 20 million in the first year and then 10 million it with the with the option year and the the second year plus. Incentives that bring it up to like 15 if he if he stays so. It’s not like the the Tigers broke the bank here to to sign him, but. But still it’s. They go out and they get what they needed, which was to to deepen that starting pitching rotation.
Paul Hoynes 3:43 Yeah, they kind of had a sneaky a good offseason run here, Joe. They get the Glaber Tories to play second base. They get Flaherty. They get Tommy connealy.
Joe Noga 3:56 Kanely yeah.
Paul Hoynes 3:57 Yeah, from, you know, the Yankees reliever. And they sign Alex Cobb. And you know something in the back of my mind, Joe is going to is telling me that Cobb is going to be a is going to be decent for the Tigers this year. This guy, they couldn’t get it really couldn’t get out of his own way. For Cleveland last year, just with every injury seemed to creep up on him. But when he did pitch, he pitched pretty good.
Joe Noga 4:20 Yeah, he, he, he. It was almost like when he had the the opportunity to be out there without injury in in the regular season. He he he showed flashes of what he could do and and that’s really what the Guardians had had signed him, hoping he could do. And then you know the the, the blisters and all the other stuff like that, just just sort of derailed it. It it’s shaping up to be a really interesting chase for the division title. I will just say that the the way that. Detroit has has positioned themselves, so we’ll keep an eye on that other news this past weekend. Former baseball Commissioner Faye Vincent passed away. He was. What? Commissioner of baseball from September of 1989 through 1992. He was 86 years old when he passed away over the weekend at his home in Vero Beach, FL. Just you know, what are your thoughts on Faye, Vincent and the job that he did? And, you know, back in the the early 90s, when really when the the steroid era was just getting underway.
Paul Hoynes 5:33 Yeah, he had really had a short run as a Commissioner, Joe, but he had a very, very interesting run. You know, he took over for Barcchio Mari after Giamatti died. You know, he was kind of the the he was the assistant Commissioner. He stepped into the to the office, one of the first things he did was the 1989 World Series, the earthquake World Series. In Oakland and San Francisco, you know, he kind of. Shepherded that so you know the there was like a 10 day delay between I think game two and game three of the World Series in San Francisco and Oakland recovered. But he, you know, kind of. He steered that so the the World Series was played to completion between Oakland and and the Giants. Then he had to deal with a lockout in 1990. There was, you know, the he came in at the tail end of the the collusion by the owners. From the late 80s, where the owners had to pay 280 million to the players because they had colluded to keep free agent prices down. He also he also suspended George Steinbrenner for life for digging up for us to hire in some sleazy detective to digging up dirt on Dave Winfield.
Joe Noga 6:49 Yeah.
Paul Hoynes 6:57 The suspension only lasted 2 years, but but that in any the some interesting things, Joey. He changed the rules for the no hitters. You know, if you had to pitch nine complete innings for a for a no hitter. Before you know the guy, the home team pitcher, and I think what gone 8 and A8 in the third innings, it was still considered a no hitter. But he had he changed that to you. You had to pitch A99 innings to get a no hitter and you know there’s there was a bunch of guys that were too happy with that. I don’t think. And finally, you know he he was. He was considered, you know, the the owners considered him two player friendly and he was voted out of office in 92. And Bud Seeley took over and stayed as a commissioner for for a, you know, a long, long run. But.
Joe Noga 7:47 Mm hmm.
Paul Hoynes 7:54 You know, I mean Faye, Vincent had really an interesting, interesting run as a Commissioner. A short but interesting run and Joe he was. Of the ***** League players. And he he headed a committee in 2006. You know, studying the the ***** leagues and the ***** League players. And that led to 17, you know, ***** League players and, you know, front office people getting into the Hall of Fame.
Joe Noga 8:25 Yeah. And eventually the the those leagues that now recognized by the Hall of Fame as official major leagues. So you know that that that, that was work started by Vincent and and that was continued on years later. He also you know sort of came up with started the the movement towards the the expansion that that. Took place after he left office in 93, I believe. It was what it was. The Rockies and the Marlins that were that were added. Yeah, it was the Rockies and the Marlins added.
Paul Hoynes 9:03 Yeah.
Joe Noga 9:05 And that that was in 91 that that sort of started the process was started in the realignment. That you know that took place. Along with that there was, you know, for the first time, you know that that that happened under himself, not necessarily like, you know, Rob Manfred instituting. Sweeping changes to the rules and and all that, but just subtle little things that Faye Vincent did. So this is a guy who’s who’s, you know, thumbprint was definitely left on Major League Baseball. But, you know, in more of a an understated way for sure during his 10. So Faye Vincent, 86 years old, passed away over the weekend. More news. Affecting the the guardians. Over the weekend, we found out Hoynes. You found out? Jensen. Lewis. Who was a former Cleveland pitcher. A relief pitcher and has been a television personality as part of the pregame and postgame shows each night. For Guardians baseball, he is leaving the the realm of of baseball pregames and now doing. A. Sports gambling show out of Vegas. And you know, with a group out there and he will no longer be a part of the Guardians broadcast team.
Paul Hoynes 10:36 Yeah, Joe, he had he had. Jensen had been part, you know. You know pre game and post game host. On the Indians and the Guardians broadcast from 2000, starting in two full time in 2015. And now he’s leaving. He’s going to the Vegas stats and Information Network in Las Vegas. It’s, you know, on all sports radio network. Streaming TV channel. He’s going to be out there for. I mean, he’s going to be doing that four or five days a week. He’s also going to stay on a serious MLB Network radio, and he’s going to be I think he wants to expand his work for ESPN on college baseball. So, you know, always like Jensen’s work. I thought he did a good job, you know, it brought some perspective. Interesting perspective from the pitching side. And I think he’s going to be missed. I you know, I don’t know where he was going to fit in this, you know, in a restructured Guardians TV broadcast. We should be finding out more details on that in the coming weeks, at least when you know around the time spring training opens. But you know definitely, you know he, you know, he grew up an Indians fan. And he, you know, really kind of stayed connected with the team as a player and a broadcaster. So that’s kind of cool.
Joe Noga 12:06 Yeah, with Jensen, you always sort of had that hometown feel that hometown vibe and like he was like he was one of us, kind of one of our guys as as he was on the broadcasts for the Guardians. And, you know, did a good job and was a. Good guy to interact with in the in the press box before and and and during the games. So we we wish him well. We wish him. And and you know, don’t don’t forget about us here in Cleveland when you’re talking about all the all the stuff on those national broadcasts. To make sure. You know the everybody knows and and I’m and I’m sure he will. He’s he’s a good guy, so for sure a a lot of fun there. All right, hoynsey, you posted over the weekend about the Guardians and five things they must do. To to repeat in the division as American League Central champions. So let’s let’s run through some of those and and just sort of discuss each one. And and the obvious one right off the top is find 5 reliable starting pitchers. I think Steven Boat and Chris Antonetti. Would would be be very interested in having that happen. That’s a priority this year is is getting five guys who are not only not only healthy and able to get out there and stay out there, but be effective as well.
Paul Hoynes 13:37 Yeah, definitely, Joe. I mean that. I think it’s starts and ends with the with the starting rotation this season you know the good starting point with Tanner Bibey, but where do you go from there Joe? What? Who do you like after after Bobby?
Joe Noga 13:53 You listed Ben Lively and you know I this the idea that Luis Ortiz is coming in and and sort of an unknown like an X Factor. I think that that’s a guy that can can show, show a lot but but I think a lot of a lot of people are going to point to Gavin Williams and say that, you know, he’s the guy.
Paul Hoynes 14:06 Yeah.
Joe Noga 14:18 As long as he’s out there and healthy, he needs to have the kind of. The season that they expect out of Gavin Williams.
Paul Hoynes 14:25 Yeah, that’s a big, big ask. You know, that’s a big question mark. Gavin was heard in spring training last year. Really kind of battled that elbow injury most of the season. You know he’s playing from behind. He only made sixteen starts, Joe. If they could get 25 to 30 starts out of Williams this year and he can be, you know, from from the get go. I think he that would be a stabilizing factor in this rotation. You know and. And certainly he has the stuff to be a successful big league pitcher. He just has to stay on the field.
Joe Noga 15:00 Yeah. And, you know, we don’t know what, what a early season Gavin Williams could look like. We don’t know what an April and May Gavin Williams looks like because we’ve never seen what an an early season Gavin Williams looks like he was. He didn’t get called up until later in the year as a as a rookie, and then last year, of course, dealing with the injury. So you know, pitching in April and May, especially in Cleveland, is a is a different animal. And you know, we don’t know what to expect out of Gavin Williams. So yeah, don’t know what an effective first couple of months could look like for Gavin, but hopefully he settles in sometime by mid to late June and and things are looking OK, you’ve got other names listed here. Tristan McKenzie, Logan Allen, Joey Cantillo, Slade Ciccone. These are all guys we’re going to get a chance to win a spot in that rotation. Who do you think if there are two spots at the end of the end of that rotation? And who do you think you know? Steps up and and takes them?
Paul Hoynes 16:04 Yeah, I think a healthy Tristan Mackenzie probably gets one, Joe, but he’s got to. He’s got to come in and show it. I think in spring training this is a big, Big Spring for him. You know, after two down years because of injuries. And then Logan Allen, you know, just has to perform. You know, he won eight games last year, Joe, but you know, he just, you know, the High era gave up a lot of hits. A lot of home runs. You know, we’ve seen Logan Allen when he’s. When he’s at his best, I think, and we just haven’t seen it over a sustained period of time. And I think if if we see that Logan Allen in spring training, he’s got a great chance to to make the rotation Cantillo, you know, we saw flashes of them. Last year, you know where he’s really good and really bad. I think he’s a young left-hander that they that they could, you know that that has, you know, that could really help them at some point in the season. And Caconi is kind of a wild card because. We really don’t know too much about him, Joe. And you know Chris Antonetti when they acquired him at the at the winter meetings. I mean, I’m sorry. After the after the winter meetings from Arizona, he said he’s going to compete for a spot in, in the rotation and the bullpen, so we’ll have to see where where he fits.
Joe Noga 17:22 Mm hmm. Yeah, as far as Cantillo and Allen, you know you you said the right, you said young left handers. You hope that you know they’re they’re able to be patient with these two. And you don’t want them finding success, you know somewhere else, because the Guardians gave up on them too quickly, especially with with Alan. If he’s able to to come out and and be anything. So you know, just giving them as much of an opportunity as they they can. To show what they can do and that you know, maybe somewhere down the line there’s there’s a spot for them in that rotation for sure. Alright, staying strong in the American League Central. Your number two point here. The Guardians were, what, 92 and 69 against AL Central teams last year. The the division was a lot better than a lot of people predicted it was going to be. They put three teams in the playoffs. Hoynes. That’s that’s. That’s not too shabby.
Paul Hoynes 18:22 No. And yeah, Joe, they went. They were like 92 and 69 overall, but they were 30 and 22 in the division.
Joe Noga 18:28 Right.
Paul Hoynes 18:32 But the Royals had a better record than them in division wise. They were 33 and 19. The twins. The twins, who finished out of the money were 29 and 23, and the Tigers were 28 and 24 in the division. So you know. I think this division is is doing nothing but get better. The Royals have had. You know, really kind of a strong offseason. They’ve, you know, they resigned Michael Waka and brought back Michael Lorenzen. They they signed closer. Carlo Estevez kind of a surprise sign under the radar. Sign that that he had, you know, he had close for the angels and in Philly last year. Then they got Jonathan India in an infielder outfielder from Cincinnati for Brady singer. So, you know, along with the the moves Detroit has made. This division is is is going to be a is going to be a very, very competitive.
Joe Noga 19:26 Yeah, it’s should be a lot of fun. And you’ve got, you know, the White Sox sitting there, who were, you know, looking like they’re going to be everybody’s doormat again this year, but you never know what Will Venable is going to be able to get out of that crew in Chicago if he’s able to. Change the culture and turn things around as well. Replacing offense. Vote to to find you know some runs in his offense.
Paul Hoynes 20:31 I mean, they are talking about replacing the offense. You know, how do you replace 108 Rbi’s that all belong to Josh Naylor after a career season from Naylor, that’s going to take some doing. You know, Carlos Santana, obviously, was brought in to replace Naylor at first base hit in the middle of the lineup, but he’s never had 100. Nine, you know, maybe they’ll get something. Some help from Lane Thomas. You know, a full season from Lane Thomas. I think you know the last full season he had. Well, the best full season he had was in 2023 when he hit 28 homers and. Drove an 86 runs that would help you know Jose Ramirez, I think is going to be you know a consistent part of the offense. He’s coming off one of his best seasons, but he’s third. He’ll be 31. So it’ll be interesting to see how he handles father time, Joe.
Joe Noga 21:31 Yeah, for sure. And you know Kyle Manzardo. Showed flashes there in in September and in in the playoffs. They’re going to be really counting on him to contribute right from the right, from the jump.
Paul Hoynes 21:47 Yeah, Manzardo is gonna get a shot. I I believe you know at the DA spot he probably a platoon with somebody, a right another right-handed hitter. But yeah, it’s gonna be. It’s gonna be interesting to see what Manzardo does. You know, when he from the get go, when you know coming out of spring training because like you said, Joey really looked like a different player when he came up in September start and had a good postseason as well. And but you know really, when you look at this lineup. Top to bottom, Joe, they’ve got to get some production from a lot more positions than they did last season, especially at the bottom of the order. I mean Bo Naylor. Brian rocchio. You know, those are two guys that really, you know, have to step up a little bit. Then I don’t think they don’t have to be world beaters, but they have. They’ve got to be a little better during the course of the regular season than they were last year.
Joe Noga 22:41 Protecting the bullpen, a priority the the Guardians bullpen, especially the back end of the bullpen, was the best in baseball all season long. They they want to have those guys producing at their peak. I guess when the the post season rolls around.
Paul Hoynes 22:58 Yeah. And, you know, I think they they took a big step toward toward doing that with the addition of Paul Seewald from, you know, from free agency. He I think he’ll fit in nicely with Heron Daddis, Cade Smith and Class A. You know who all all four you know, counting the post season had over 80 appearances last season. So you know there, you know that they could use, they could use a veteran arm there and you know as we’ve talked before. You’ve got to like the work that. The youngsters. Andrew Walters and Eric Subbrowski did last year. I think that’s going to help. So we’ll see how this goes. And but I think the bullpen you know is going to have to stay strong. But I, but from the get go right now, I I still think it’s the. Best part of the ball club?
Joe Noga 23:48 And finally, you know, playing defense, a big part of what made the Guardian successful last year. And they’ve they’ve lost some of that in in the Andres Jimenez trade. Obviously an elite defender at second base. How are they going to be able to not just replace his defense at second base, but you know stay, you know, maintain some some continuity? With their overall defence.
Paul Hoynes 24:15 Yeah, it’s. I think you know you when you go around the Diamond, Joe, the infield you’ve got, you know, you got Ramirez who was a Gold Glove finalist at third. Roquio was a Gold Glove finalist at short. You got a big hole, obviously at second base and Santana won a Gold Glove for the Twins last season. So you know the the bullpen is strong, I think. Bo Naylor. You know his Statcast stats. You know, defensive runs saved were excellent. You’ve got, you know, Quan, a three time Gold Glove winner in in left field lane. Thomas, you know, looks like he settled in at center field. You know right field is A is a question mark. You’re probably going to platoon there, but you know you look at that overall defense, it should be solid. The question is second base where you know, Andres Jimenez played such a vital role on this team, not only in turn of the double play and making great great plays at second base, but you know relay throws. Is out of the plate. I don’t think anybody in the big leagues was better than that.
Joe Noga 25:18 Yeah, nobody did it better than Andres Jimenez with a relay throw from the outfield. Get the ball to him. He was the the the rallying cry of the outfielders when the ball went over their head and it it always seemed to work out for them so. Yeah, those are all all really good points. All could you know if if three or four of those go in the Guardians favor and and they’re able to accomplish what you you sort of laid out in that post, you know, you might be looking at. The team. That’s definitely competing for and maybe winning an AL Central Division title again in 2025 just because it happened last year doesn’t mean it’s they’re automatically going to be there again. You know, we saw that happen in 2023 when the expectations were one thing in the season, went in another direction, so. We’ll keep an eye on all these points as we get closer to spring training as we start to see guys on the mound. On the field. We’ll see how many of these boxes they can check off and get back to the top of the division again this year. All right, Honda, that’s going to wrap up today’s edition of the Cleveland Baseball Talk Podcast. I will check in again with you tomorrow.
Paul Hoynes 26:36 All right, Joe.
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