COLUMBUS, Ohio — Where does Ohio State’s Ryan Day rank among the eight head coaches left in the College Football Playoff?
On this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik and Andrew Gillis try to figure that out by ranking all eight of them. Along the way, there is a consensus bottom five and No. 1. But the rest of the top three require a debate with hopes of coming to a like-minded conclusion.
Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.
Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Stephen Means (00:22.441)
Welcome back to Black Eyed Talk. I’m Stephen Means. That’s the Fog Crisis and that’s Andrew Gillis. Last week, we decided to rank the quarterbacks of the college football playoffs. That’s when there were 12 quarterbacks. Now, there are only eight teams in the college football playoffs. Number one, Oregon faces number eight, Ohio State, and the Rose Bowl will be at that game. Text 614-350-3315. Number two, Georgia will face number seven, Notre Dame in the Sugar Bowl.
We won’t be at that game. We get the text anyway. 614-353-15. Number three, Boise State will face number six, Penn State in the Fiesta Bowl, which I mean, guess Boise State’s number three. And then number four, Arizona State will face number five, Texas in the Peach Bowl. Last week we did quarterbacks. Now that there’s a smaller field, we’re going to do coaches this time around and we got our textures involved. That’s why I keep saying the phone number.
because it seems easier to do it with eight than it is 12. Stefan, was this easier?
for you to rank one through eight, the college football coaches of the college football playoff, than ranking the quarterbacks last week.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:35.728)
I thought it was easy to rank 1, 2, 3 easier, but 4 through 8 was kind of tricky.
Stephen Means (01:38.827)
BOOM
Stephen Means (01:44.577)
It’s the same for you, Andrew.
Andrew (01:47.544)
was different. I think it was I think if you were to say, which coach would you rather have on January 1 or December 31? I think there are different answers on my list. I think if you were to say, well, okay, we’ll look at the overall body of work, right? Okay, we’ll look at the overall resume. Like that’s a different conversation than having a certain coach on a certain day.
That and we there was an interesting kind of conversation that I had with myself as I was kind of doing this where I was like, all right, do I have this guy or this guy higher? Because this guy’s got the better resume, but this guy, I want him in this bowl game. I want him in this quarterfinal game. So there’s an interesting kind of look here. So it was different. It was harder to it was it was harder to rank some of these guys.
But I think there was also just kind of clear divides here of maybe a top three or four and then maybe the middle and then you get to the final two or
Stephen Means (02:57.281)
So here are the coaches by their seed in the college football playoff. Oregon’s Dan Lanning, they’re 13 and 0, 9 and 0 this season. He is 35 and 5 overall and 24 and 3 in conference play. That’s 9 and 0 in the big 10 and he’s 15 and 3 in the two years that Oregon was in the Pac-12. Kirby Smart, he is at Georgia. He has been at Georgia since 2016.
He has 105 and 18 and 62 and 11 in the SEC. He’s won two national titles. I think he’s won four, no five SEC titles. He’s only been at Georgia though. So that’s number two. Number three, Boise State. You’ve got Spencer Danielson. He’s in his second year as Boise State’s head coach. He’s 16 and two overall. Really his first full year. He took over in an intro role last year. He’s 16 and two.
and 10 and 0 in the Mountain West Conference for Boise State. Arizona State head coach Kenny Dillingham also in his first, second year, excuse me, three and nine last year, 11 and two this year. What a turnaround. What a turnaround for Arizona State there. 14 and 11 overall, nine and nine just won his first Big 12 championship. So they’re better in the Big 12 than they were in the Pac-12. Number five, Texas, you got Steve Sarkeesian. He’s been a head coach for a long, long time. He’s coached at Washington, USC.
In Texas overall, he is 83 and 51 as a head coach, but at Texas so far he is 37 and 16 and 24 and 11 in his four years at Texas. Three of those years they were in the big 12. Now they are currently in the SEC. James Franklin is our longest tenured head coach anywhere at Penn State. He is 141 and 64 and 33 in big template. Overall, he’s 124.
in 56, because he also had three years where he was the head coach at Vanderbilt. Marcus Freeman, former Ohio State, but guy again, only one place in his tenure as head coach. He’s been at Notre Dame the entire time he coached in their bowl game when Brian Kelly left for LSU, they did lose that Fiesta bowl. And now he’s headed to the peach bowl 31 and nine over the last four years. This is his best season. They have gotten better every single year, nine and four, 10 and three.
Stephen Means (05:22.977)
and 11 and one this year. And obviously they’re 12 and one now with a win in the college football playoff. That’s the number seven seed number 18 Ryan Day, another guy on this list who has only been at one spot took over at Ohio state in 2019 was an interim coach in 2018 for the first three games of the year. He’s 67 to 10 and 46 and five at Ohio state.
And that’s it. That’s the list. That’s a lot of people. Did you, I don’t know if I realized in real time that there’s a lot of coaches here who are primarily young and new to college football head coaches.
Stefan Krajisnik (05:57.806)
Yeah
Andrew (05:57.912)
There were a lot of first timers too, like a lot of like people that like their, like this is either their first program and they’ve been there a few years or they’ve just started out and they’re early on it. Yeah. It was interesting to take a look at this list. A lot of youth here.
Stephen Means (05:59.627)
Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (06:13.328)
It’s going to be an interesting debate of what they’ve done so far in their career versus guys of what we think they’re on the trajectory to become. And I think the Rose Bowl might be the perfect example of that.
Stephen Means (06:13.525)
like it.
Stephen Means (06:22.037)
And there’s a lot more.
Stephen Means (06:26.847)
Yeah, and it’s a lot of coaches who are in the ladder of that conversation, which is why Stefan, I think you were like the top three was easy. And then the five and four through eight is where you kind of had some problems because there’s one really established guy that I think we’re all going to have. Yeah, it’s the only guy on this list who has a national championship. So, I mean, that’s just kind of what it is in this situation. So let’s start our list. You know how we do things here, Andrew. I’m going to let you go first.
Stefan Krajisnik (06:41.968)
I think there’s an obvious number one, yeah.
Stephen Means (06:56.127)
Who is your unequivocal number eight?
Andrew (07:00.224)
Spencer Danielson, Boise State. I think there’s a couple of things that can be true here. think you can be a great coach. He was Mountain West coach of the year, a good record. I think you can be an impressive coach and this doesn’t mean that he’s a bad coach or it doesn’t mean that he’s, well, there’s just…
Stephen Means (07:02.218)
Okay.
Andrew (07:29.24)
you know, riding his team’s talent to this. And he’s actually not that good, but I just, I am curious what happens without Ashton Gentile there. You know, I, like, I am curious if we have a little bit of a, you know, like a Mel Tucker situation going on where it’s just, Hey, Mel Tucker had Kenneth Walker and he used that man to get a 10 year contract. And I wonder if Danielson has kind of used Ashton Gentile.
to get to this point and look, got great players on the roster. That’s a coaching, you know, benefit. That’s a, you know, a knock, not a knock on the coaches. You have to bring them there. But I just look at Danielson and I’m like, okay, what happened? Like, how good of a coach is he really if Genti’s not there? I think we need to see more sample size. I think he’s been good. just, when you compare him to other people on this list as well.
He was eight and I did hurt putting him at eight because I do think he’s a good coach, but there are other guys that I think are just deserving to be hired.
Stefan Krajisnik (08:36.342)
I, I didn’t hurt putting him at a. I listen, I, I understand what he’s done is impressive and Gentie is, has carried a lot of that workload. think they’d probably be a playoff contender if Boise state came into this year without Ashton Gentie because Boise state has been a good program. Brian Harson was winning at Boise state. He won the mountain west or at least finished tied for first, think five out of his seven seasons there. Like Boise is a established.
program just because it’s not a power five. Right. And if we had told you if the 12 team playoff had been going on, you know, the last decade, and I told you boys, he stated made it multiple times. You probably wouldn’t be too surprised. You know, if, if, if Spencer Danielson had had, you know, if he was like a offensive coordinator at, you know, a big 10 school and then made the jump to Boise and you could see, know, all right, this is starting to click. mean, he was, he was at Boise for a while. He was
They’re under Brian Harson. took over a good program under Brian Harson has kind of kept them there. So he’s kind of done what a lot of coaches at Boise state have done. And he hasn’t really had a track record that, you know, tells you that he is on the rise and he’s, he’s next up. I’m sure at some point he’s going to get some power for offers and, maybe he’ll have some success there. when you look at the rest of this list, I got no problem putting him at number eight.
Stephen Means (09:57.791)
Him having Ashton Gentey has nothing to do with why I put him at number eight though. You’re saying, let’s see what happens when he doesn’t have talented players. Well, that’s literally all eight coaches on this list is what happens when you don’t have talented players.
But yeah, he was the clear number eight. In fact, two more fun facts. There are two, all but two coaches got at least one first place vote and only one coach didn’t get an eighth place vote. So I’ll allow you guys to guess who’s on those lists there. well actually, no, I’ll just tell you this one. Spencer Danielson was the first of two coaches who didn’t get a first place vote. 7.15 overall, 49.8 % of his votes were the eighth place vote, 29.5%.
The votes were his seventh place vote. So he was like clearly number eight on this list. I think he’s number eight on this list because to your point, Stefan, yeah, Boise State. They’re almost like what Gonzaga is in basketball, right? It’s like, yeah, you’re not. Yeah, you’re not a major conference team, but come on, man. We see what you’re doing over there. And his is just so fresh that you almost do want to see a little bit more of it from Boise State and him then.
Stefan Krajisnik (10:56.484)
was a good time, Karen.
Stephen Means (11:11.081)
just one good year of this. is, if Boise State’s not in the playoff once every three years, then that’s probably a bad thing for them. They should be the group of five team who kind of dominates that spot just where things stand right now. So that’s fine. Okay, clear number eight. We don’t have to go longer. Number seven, Stefan.
Stefan Krajisnik (11:29.872)
Yeah, I’ve got Dillingham here at number seven at Arizona state. actually think he’s an awesome coach. It’s, it’s kind of like what you were saying where there were Danielson of, know, let’s see it over a period of time. The reason I had him above Danielson, cause he didn’t have a great year last year with Arizona state, but Danielson is at an established program doing what that established program has done for awhile Arizona state. I mean, they’re, they’re in that same conversation that we’ve had with Indiana all year of like, where did you come from? Where’d you say they were last year? Three, nine.
Stephen Means (11:58.709)
Three and nine.
Stefan Krajisnik (11:59.62)
Yeah. So to make that jump, I mean, he’s, he’s young, he’s energetic. I, I like him a lot. you know, I think we’ll see over the course of time what success that Arizona state looks like, right? Cause you know, if he could get them to eight and four next year, nine and three, like if they don’t have to necessarily be a playoff team for me to think that he’s a good coach. So the fact that they’re here and the run they made there at the end with, with the big 12, to go win the title, I thought was really impressive. I like him a lot. I think he’s on the rise.
You know, he’s, he’s out there with some of the stuff he says. He’s not afraid to make some headlines. And when you’re a young coach at a program like that, that’s probably a good thing to do is get people talking about your program. And when we’re talking about Arizona state, he’s done a lot of the right things. He’s turned that program around, you know, short amount of time. We’ll see how sustainable it is. And at programs like that, it’s really hard to sustain success. that even if you don’t sustain, sustain success, it doesn’t make you a bad coach. It’s just, sometimes these jobs are really hard.
But he’s given Arizona State every reason to invest in the football and think that they can be a contender in the Big 12. And I think a lot of that is a reflection of the work he’s done.
Andrew (13:06.006)
I think if there were a coach in college, I also had him at seven. I think if there were a coach in college football that you want to buy stock on, would be Kenny Dillingham because he’s probably that mix of you’re buying him at the lowest price because he’s at Arizona state. He’s had one good year, but I think, I think we might end up in a really, really, really good place with him.
And I think we’re maybe a year or two away from Arizona State having like some more good seasons. I think we’re, you know, not far off for him being linked to, you know, big time major college football jobs, right? Like if Arizona State has a good year next year, I’m not saying this is going to happen or anything. Like he’s going to be floated if USC gets rid of Lincoln Riley. Like he’s going to be one of those guys that gets floated for that job. Right? Like if
You know, if if something happens at a big time program, Dillingham is going to be the guy Dillingham is going to be seen as, hey, this is this next up and comer coach. He’s young. He’s energetic. Look at what he did at Arizona State. Like he is going to be seen as that guy. And I think I’m kind of getting on board here with Dillingham. I really like Dillingham. And I think if especially if his team pulls this off.
and you know, beats Texas in the playoff, which I don’t think is going to happen. But if that happens, if this happens, this is rocket ship time for the Kenny Dillingham experience.
Stephen Means (14:46.187)
So why is he so low for you guys?
If that’s how you guys are talking about him, if he’s like the next thing, the next cool thing, he’s a high riser. And the reason I’m asking that question is he didn’t take up like unlike Danielson, Dillingham didn’t take over a team who has like a proven chalk record of being a good college football program. They were he was pulling them out of the Herb Edwards era, which at its best was eight and five at its worst was three and nine. So year one.
Andrew (14:50.36)
So.
Stephen Means (15:18.867)
is a throwaway year, in my opinion, for Kenny Dillingham, because that’s a, just trying to maximize what you got, which is a lot of the old guys, and then go hard in the portal and play as many of your guys as possible in year two, you changing conferences and take your shot. And he came, Steve Sarkeesian said something about Kenny Dillingham in Arizona, where he was talking about how Texas was in the big 12.
for 27 years and I think they won the big 12, like what, four or five times. And Arizona came in, Arizona State came in and did it in year one. So if we’re talking about him this highly, why is he so low? And to me, you guys are not alone in this. The Texers also had him at number seven, 42.5 % of his votes were seven, 24.6 % were eight, 13.5 % were six, and then 11.6%.
or five, he’s the only other coach on this list who did not get a first place vote. So you two are not alone, but I’m trying to understand. We’re trying to do a balance here of what we know about a coach versus what we think they might be, but then also what they are right now. Cause that’s kind of the point. have to keep continue to keep the same laws we use with the coach, with the quarterbacks last week. If we’re, this is how we’re talking about Kenny Dillingham. Why is he seven?
Stefan Krajisnik (16:38.224)
think part of it is we don’t really have any history to base off of, what does he look like in a big time postseason game? I we have the big club championship. I’ll give him that. thought he coached I thought they played really well in that game. We don’t have anything to base on. What is your track record in big games? What is your ability to, you know, sustain success? What is your ability when the coach on the other sideline has three weeks to prepare for you, four weeks to prepare for you? You know, are you going to get out coach or get out? We just don’t really have much to base it off of yet with him, I think.
Stephen Means (16:45.281)
Okay.
Stephen Means (17:09.569)
I mean, we can say that about a coach who’s gonna be in our top four too. The only difference is one is in a conference we have more respect for.
Stefan Krajisnik (17:18.586)
Some of it is just opinion.
Stephen Means (17:19.967)
No, I know that’s why we’re having a conversation. I’m gonna do this here.
Andrew (17:26.722)
Yeah, there’s a, well, I was going to say there’s just, it’s a resident and we’re literally, we’re at the doorstep now for, for the two that I wanted to have a conversation about, but this, mean, this is a resume versus a, who do you think is the better coach? And it’s, it’s interesting how you balance that for, you know, somebody like a, you know, Kenny Dillingham who’s been there two years, who’s, you know, first time head coach who’s doesn’t really have that track record versus somebody who, you know,
they’ve been there a while, right? You they could have recruited Kenny Dillingham back when he was a player, right? Like you could, you know, you could figure all that out. So there’s two guys right now that I, I’m wondering if you’re going to bring up.
Stephen Means (18:08.147)
I am, so let’s take a break before we get into that part, because we know how this goes at this point. You look up and it’s like, man, we argued about that for 45 minutes. So let’s take our first break and then I’m gonna introduce some names here on Buckeye Talk.
We’re back here from the break on buck. talked so far. mean, we’ve essentially locked into, I’m just going to do what I always do and poke some holes in it. Number eight, Spencer Danielson, Boise state head coach in his second year, 16 and two over the last two years at Boise state. And then Kenny Dillingham at number seven, 14, 11, 99. And the big in conference play between the pack to open the, in the big 12, his second year as Arizona state head coach. Those are the two people.
who were at the bottom for Stefan, Andrew, and the Texers, that is not my list.
I’m gonna bring James Franklin, Marcus Freeman into this conversation. And here is my list, five through eight. I have Marcus Freeman at five, he’s 37 and nine in four years at Notre Dame. He has gotten better every single year. Now he’s got some bad losses. I mean, right, he’s got the Marshall loss, he’s got the NIU loss this year, but he also just won a playoff game, a home playoff game. So he did.
He maximized this year what Notre Dame could be. Regardless of all this, like they were never going to be able to get a buy because they’re not allowed to because they’re not in the conference. But they’re a high seed and they got a home game. And they won that home game. And I don’t know if people are like gonna be shocked if Notre Dame beats Georgia next week. So, and.
Stephen Means (19:50.685)
He took over a job that the guy who had it before him said, I can’t do it here. I can’t win here. I’ve maxed out this program. Well, this guy won more playoff games than the last guy did already. I think he is the best pound per pound coach of the bottom four. And then I’ve got Kenny Dillingham because of every reason you guys just said, yes, it’s new. Yes, it’s still fresh. Yes, it’s a small sample size, but you can.
As I said earlier, there’s a coach we’re going to talk about in the top four where it’s the same conversation. Yeah, it’s a sample size. There’s just people on this pod who love him more. And I use that word love for a reason. So it’s okay to put that guy with a small sample size in the top four and no one’s going to bat an eye at it. I am applying the same logic to Kenny Dillingham when it comes to him, James Franklin and Marcus Freeman. So I had Freeman, Dillingham, Franklin, and I’m with you guys with Daniel. So it’s just kind of hard to.
You’re not playing, it’s a very different level of competition where Boise State’s gotta make some final fours before you can put a Boise State coach up in that conversation. So I’m fine with that. But I would put Franklin at number seven because we have 11 years, 141, 64 and 33, 11 years of knowing James Franklin is a good coach unless there’s a team on the other sideline that is as good as him.
Andrew (20:52.365)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (21:17.742)
So that’s what I had. I had Freeman five, Franklin six. And I think that was kind of the question that I was talking about because if you were to say, I want the resume, then James Franklin has it because Marcus Freeman’s losses are abysmal, right? They lost to Marshall, they lost to NIU.
in his first year, they lost to Stanford, who was also awful, who might’ve lost to Marshall that year. There were bad losses for Freeman. And if you wanna say the resume of James Franklin pushes him over the top, I was willing to hear that argument if one of you wanted to make it. I guess would now be if Stefan wants to make it, we can hear that. But.
They’re going to play football games on December 31st and January 1st. Penn State kicks off the quarterfinals when they play Boise State. And Ohio’s or excuse me, Notre Dame plays Georgia right after the Rose Bowl. Is anyone on this pod ready to make an argument that if you walk into that game, you’d rather have James Franklin than Marcus Freeman? Because if you’re giving me team A versus team B and you say pick your coach, I pick Marcus Freeman for a big game.
And I think that is maybe the unique conversation about this, where I think Freeman might’ve figured it out. I think in terms of like how to coach week to week, because we saw them win at A and then lose to NIU. But in every game that he’s played, that’s a big game, he showed up and his teams have showed up. Penn State cannot say that same thing. James Franklin’s biggest win of his career is the Ohio State win in 2016.
When they blocked the kick and they ran it back and hey, look, good job, James. They haven’t beaten Ohio State since.
Andrew (23:18.51)
His record versus top 10 in Ohio State and Michigan is abysmal. So yeah, I’m taking Freeman over Franklin. I want Freeman to coach my team over James Franklin at this point.
Stefan Krajisnik (23:31.746)
So I agree. I have Freeman Franklin as my 5′6″.
Stefan Krajisnik (23:40.036)
But I struggle with it in the sense that, so Andrew, you’ve been no better off the top of your head than me. What are Freeman’s biggest wins? Because like the Indiana win is a big win, that’s a playoff win. James Franklin also now has a playoff win to cancel it out. So like those canceled each other out for.
Stephen Means (23:55.745)
Texas A &M on the road to start this season. That is the Texas A &M on the road win is better than in this span that Marcus Freeman has been a head coach. So that’s 2021. that’s what was, cause anything that James Franklin had used in 2016, that’s five years before Marcus Freeman was still a head coach. He was an assistant still in the time that they have both been a head coach at premier programs.
Andrew (23:57.462)
Texas A on a road to open the year. The Indiana playoff win.
Stephen Means (24:24.415)
Marcus Freeman’s Texas A win on the road in a prime time game with a quarterback who was going against his former head coach is better than any win James Franklin has in that same time span.
Stefan Krajisnik (24:39.408)
Yeah. I don’t disagree. That’s why I have Freeman at five and the only, the only argument I would make is like, yes, I went on tech, I’m as great, as is Marcus Freeman in those, let’s say Michigan with hardball, that’s who, Franklin went against before this season. What Freeman beat Ohio state in Michigan. We’ve seen them lose to Ohio state already. What do beat about Michigan teams? Probably not.
Andrew (24:39.646)
And yeah.
Andrew (24:59.936)
Right. Well, here’s what I could say. Here’s what I could say about that. I think they would play differently. I’m not saying they would win because Ohio State is always more talented than Penn State, or at least it’s tied. Right. Penn State would play those games differently. Penn’s like that is something I think I have noticed in Marcus Freeman’s tenure at Notre Dame is that they like
They opened up their second half against Indiana with a kickoff turn on a reverse and they were up by two scores. Like Freeman is more aggressive, I think, than people give him credit for. So, oh, and also they beat Clemson in 2022. Clemson was nine and oh, and I think they were like the number four team in the country. So like I know Clemson was not great that year, but they did beat them to sleep. So he’s got some big wins. And if I, if I know, if I’m remembering this correctly,
Stephen Means (25:47.124)
I am-
Andrew (25:56.706)
James Franklin is 1-18 against top five teams. And Marcus Freeman got a top five win in his first year.
Stefan Krajisnik (25:59.78)
I was gonna say some big wins is already more than James Franklin’s.
Andrew (26:05.74)
Yeah, literally, literally. He won one big game, one top five game, he got any tied James Franklin’s all time market at Ohio or at Penn State and Vanderbilt.
Stephen Means (26:05.793)
You do it.
Stephen Means (26:15.041)
So that’s my question because okay, it seems like we all have Freeman at number five. So I don’t know if we need to sit here and continue to. It is, but first before it, let me go ahead and give our textures their due. They also had Freeman at number five, 38.6 % of his votes were number five, 19.3 % were number six, 17.4 % were number four. So he was four to six range, James Franklin.
Stefan Krajisnik (26:20.516)
Yeah. The debate you want to have is Franklin and Dillon ham.
Stephen Means (26:41.729)
18.8 % of his votes for number five, 41.1 % were number six. He trended downwards. All his higher percentages of votes are five, six, seven, eight, while all of Marcus Freeman’s are between six and three, essentially. I want to have the Kenley Dunahan conversation because…
Stefan Krajisnik (27:02.628)
I was gonna say number six for James Franco. That’s like Penn State. Number six. Just always.
Stephen Means (27:06.675)
It’s such a Penn State number. So that’s part of the reason I want to put Kenny higher than him. I don’t think James Franklin can get higher if these eight coaches, regardless of where they’re at next year, if these are the eight coaches 12 months from now coaching in the quarterfinal of the college football playoffs.
Stephen Means (27:30.781)
James Franklin and the guy who’s going to be number one simply because he has two Natties are the only coaches who I don’t believe can go up.
Stephen Means (27:46.439)
everybody else on this list can climb up from whatever their spot is going to end up being on this list. So if you can’t go up.
Any
Andrew (27:59.16)
So you’re saying James Franklin can’t go up this year?
Stephen Means (28:03.103)
Yeah, I don’t think he can move up this year.
Andrew (28:05.917)
I think he can.
Stephen Means (28:07.293)
I think them, I, listen, I am not going to reward James Franklin for James Franklin-ing his way to a national championship.
Andrew (28:15.884)
mean, they would have to beat Georgia and route to get there. Yeah.
Stephen Means (28:17.713)
Nobody. They would have to beat Georgia without their starting. That is the most ideal way for Penn State to have to play Georgia. Without their starting quarterback.
Andrew (28:24.334)
So it is, it is funny. It is funny that like we talk about Penn State, like, Oh, like, cause I had made this case on the pod before and Steven disagreed with me where I said, Penn State is the team most benefited by the 12 team playoff because like they actually can get in now and they’re actually probably going to host a lot of games. And the.
Stephen Means (28:45.343)
No, reason, the reason we didn’t agree for Nathan didn’t agree with me that Stefan, the reason we didn’t agree with him is because throughout the 14 correct, they’re the only team in the country would have made it every year. So there’s no way you can make the argument that the team would benefit more than a team who was constantly been number five and number six. So any expansion would have helped Ohio state this specific way of expand. Here was my case against Penn state was we now have a new way to judge coaches.
Andrew (28:51.948)
Ohio State would have made it every year.
Andrew (29:02.669)
But it.
Stephen Means (29:14.401)
There’s no more, oh, Penn State’s just stuck behind Ohio State and Michigan, and it’s kind of difficult to ask him to beat both of them. So at best they’re 11 and one, and that’s probably not playoff when you’re Penn State. Now, there’s no excuse. Right, there’s no excuse for James Franklin to not make the playoff. So if he’s not making the playoff, then Penn State’s gotta have another conversation. And then if he gets in, right, is, Penn State’s able to.
Andrew (29:28.398)
1101 you’re hosting.
Andrew (29:42.08)
Isn’t it just so perfectly Penn State that they get SMU and Boise State to where they win two playoff games like Penn State wins two playoff games and we’re like, wow, look at them. They’re in the semifinals and everybody’s like, yeah, well really.
Stephen Means (29:45.633)
Yes, I’m a man!
But that’s a rule.
Stephen Means (29:53.215)
I don’t, there’s this idea for some of the, there’s elite, elite, elite, right? There’s elite, elite, elite. And then there’s that level right under that. Those teams right under that got to be real careful about this expansion. Cause it helps you cause now you’re in the field, but now you’re not hypothetical of what you could do. You actually have to go prove it. So if Penn State, now this is probably not going to happen this year. Cause as we’re sitting here joking,
James Franklin just got the most James Franklin of ways to get to the national championship by not having to do anything for six months. They played one real title contender at home and they didn’t score an offensive point, well, a touchdown. They scored three points on offense.
But if he gets in this year and year out and they’re anywhere from what are they six this year? They’re six to nine and they’re losing that game. That’s all the proof we need to know that James Franklin is not the guy. And there’s a lot of coaches like that in college football. So I don’t want to just pick on James Franklin. Frankly, he’s just the one in the college football playoff. What I am simply saying is this, both of you have said the word resume and both of you, sounds like we’re saying it with the tone of positivity. This is his strength. This is his fight. Or it’s just the proof.
that we’ve seen what he is. He’s a good coach. I don’t trust him when things are equal. And I think Kenny Dillingham might be better than him.
Andrew (31:26.094)
So here’s the thing with Dillingham though. Dillingham in 2024, they beat number 16 Utah at home. They beat number 16 Kansas State on the road. They beat number 14 BYU at home and they beat number 16 Iowa State in the big 12 championship game. Those scores were by eight, by 10, by five, by a lot.
I didn’t want to do math on the pot. The thing that I’m thinking though, and this is this is just open for discussion, I guess. Do that. Do those not also sound like games? James Franklin wins because James Franklin, like if we’re to say Ryan Day in Ohio State have a top have a Michigan problem. Can’t we just say James Franklin has a top five problem, but James Franklin beats everybody else because they go 10 and two every year. They just lose to Ohio State Michigan in the top five.
Stephen Means (32:22.507)
That’s because Penn State’s more talented than a lot of teams. So let’s give James Franklin, Kenny Dillingham’s roster and Kenny Dillingham’s let’s give him Penn State’s roster. Let’s flip that. This is, think the first time when we get to do this, let’s flip it. Let’s see how things are differently. I don’t know if Penn State beat Ohio State, but at least they score on offense.
Stefan Krajisnik (32:44.054)
I think, I think, think, yeah, no, I don’t disagree with that. think the Dillingham thing is just, it’s, it’s an unknown yet, right? It’s a, it’s the, question of like, is he Mel Tucker? Obviously not, you know, that stuff, but is he Mel Tucker in the sense of, you know, one good year and then you kind of burn out or can he be a James Franklin where
Stephen Means (33:07.318)
Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (33:10.532)
you know, and maybe even better, James Franklin, where you can consistently do it. And obviously James Franklin has the benefit of a much better roster than, than Dillingham. I understand your argument. think, I think the Dillingham thing is it’s, it’s just still so much of an unknown for people, right? Like we, like James Franklin, like Ken Dillingham reach even that level. We don’t know that yet.
Stephen Means (33:32.033)
I guess I’m fighting and I’m gonna lose it. I’ve already lost it. It’s literally three to one. So I’m not gonna convince people to come to my side. Because it’s not working clearly at this point. I feel like that’s the new rule. Within 10 minutes, if you can’t convince one person to do your side, you gotta give up your argument. Because at that point, you’re just trying to talk to yourself. My own argument though for why had Kenny and Dilly Ham hire is simply.
That’s fine. I agree. It’s so fresh. It’s so new. We don’t know if this is a one year thing where things just came together or it’s the sign of something new. What I am going to say is seven and six, seven and six, 11 and three, 11 and two, nine and four, 11 and two, four and five, COVID year, seven and six, 2021 non-COVID year, 11 and two, 10 and three, 12 and two. This is the most games he’s won and he needed a playoff to do it.
I am simply saying, do you want new exciting? Maybe there’s something there, even if you’re taking a chance or the guy who has shown you that he’s probably already hit his ceiling.
I went with take the chance. And that’s fine that you guys didn’t. That’s cool.
Stefan Krajisnik (34:46.052)
I don’t think it’s a bad argument. I think it’s a very fair argument, to be honest.
Stephen Means (34:49.577)
Yeah, I’m also happy we put market streaming above. Okay.
Andrew (34:54.72)
Ask me on January 2nd and we might have a very different answer about James Franklin and Kenny Dillingham because both those guys have chances to either tank themselves or really rise themselves up the ranks.
Stefan Krajisnik (34:54.81)
I didn’t.
Stefan Krajisnik (35:03.428)
I think, listen, think Dillenham’s got a chance. I think Arizona State’s got a chance in that game.
Stephen Means (35:08.179)
If Dillingham beats Sarkesian, we’re redoing this list.
Stephen Means (35:17.533)
Okay, because also there’s a chance Penn State and Notre Dame are playing each other.
So maybe we just did this week list a week too early, but we’re here now. this, you can always do stuff again. That’s the great thing about podcasting. You can never hear enough of your own self, even if your point makes no sense and is based in nothing.
Stefan Krajisnik (35:31.844)
We can always do it again.
Stephen Means (35:46.249)
Let’s take our last break and let’s make it. Let’s let’s have a battle royale for spots two through four here on Bungai Talk.
And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk. Stephen Mean, Stefan Kreisick, and Andrew Gillis. I’ve decided, you’re here in this pod on Christmas. I just don’t wanna think that much. I put too much, Stefan put way too much mental brain power into whether or I was going to schedule it for one day or another day. That’s just, of the things I need to think about over the next week and a half, whether or not I’m putting a pod up.
24 hours from the recording date or if I’m putting it up seven days from the recording day is the stupidest thing I’ve ever thought about in my life. So I apologize to you specifically over the last two days having to hear me battle with my own self about something that you probably didn’t care about your-
Stefan Krajisnik (36:36.9)
we’ve made it. Always the light at the end of the tunnel.
Stephen Means (36:37.855)
We’ve made it. say that. Yeah. We say this now that people like, hey, I didn’t get it till Monday. No, I’m It’s Texas one, four, three, five, three, three, one, five. We’re ranking the college football coaches left in the college football playoffs. So far list number five, Marcus Freeman at Notre Dame, number six, James Franklin at Penn State, number seven, Kenny Dillingham at Arizona State and number eight, Spencer Danielson at Boise State. Here’s who’s left on our list.
Georgia’s Kirby Smart, Oregon’s Dan Lanning, Ohio State’s Ryan Day, and Texas’ Steve Sarkeesian. Kirby Smart’s number one.
Andrew (37:17.004)
Yeah, do we need, I don’t think, do we even need to debate one?
Stephen Means (37:19.935)
That was the discussion. Kirby Smart’s number one.
Andrew (37:21.706)
No.
Stefan Krajisnik (37:21.85)
Well, Stephen, Stephen earlier made like a, a maybe a little bit of a side comment saying Kirby’s locked in a number one just cause he’s got those national titles. Well, it takes a lot to win a national title.
Stephen Means (37:33.577)
I’m sorry, sorry, sorry. If my tone was like, you only get them because you won Natties. No, no, no. You have them because you have two national championships. to back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m sorry if that tone came off as dismissive of national titles. I care about who wins the football games. He was the clear number one for our voters. 1.75 was his overall score. He got 70 % of the first place votes.
Andrew (37:33.908)
Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (37:38.576)
Ha
Stefan Krajisnik (37:42.128)
Saban was only the GOAT because he won 37 national titles.
Stephen Means (38:02.273)
70 % of them. Nobody else had anything higher than 17.4. 13.5 % of the second place votes. He did have votes across the board though. So he did have a few votes for number eight, which is why I said that earlier. I don’t know if I mentioned this earlier, Marcus Freeman, he had 1.9 % of the first place votes. James Franklin got one first place vote. So somebody did put him at number one.
Andrew (38:25.698)
That was an accident. Somebody made an error.
Stephen Means (38:27.602)
I mean, you never know, I’m not gonna say that. People have their decisions, man. People make their own decisions in life.
Stefan Krajisnik (38:33.136)
The only way Kirby Smart is number eight, I’m looking through it to make sure I’m right here, the only way he’s number eight is if we’re doing this alphabetically. By last name.
Stephen Means (38:41.325)
Either that or maybe they went from eight to one. Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (38:45.52)
Yeah, that would have to have been it. It’s funny. was talking to a friend earlier about us doing these rankings and I was like, who do think is number one? And they named Dan Lanning and I said, you’re forgetting a very obvious one. And they were like, oh yeah, I forgot Kirby Smarts in the play. That’s when you’ve reached the lead status that was like, oh yeah, you’re so good that we kind of forgot you’re there because you’re just always there.
Stephen Means (39:00.395)
Yeah, yeah. Everybody’s got their needs in the playoff because George is not ready for this.
Andrew (39:11.916)
Yeah, I mean, it’s like Kirby’s going 100 miles an hour and everybody else isn’t.
Stefan Krajisnik (39:16.282)
Well, his players are.
Andrew (39:18.102)
Yep, that was the joke.
Stephen Means (39:22.995)
Okay, so before we get into the top four, I’m just not gonna address that.
Where would you guys have slotted in Rhett Lashley, Gabbo Sweeney, Josh Hypel, and Kurt Signetti if they were on this list?
Andrew (39:42.232)
Dabo’s an interesting conversation for two, I think. I’m not saying I would have had him there, and I’m glad I didn’t have to have that conversation, but Dabo would have been an interesting conversation for two because there are points of Dabo’s career where you go, what he’s done is undeniable. And I think where Clemson is at as a program, I think right now you have to feel pretty okay, but there’s good and bad, right? There’s…
Okay, well, they just started using the transfer portal. They got like a receiver and a defensive end. Yeah, like it’s like, they okay. So they just got these guys. Okay. it feels like dabo maybe let his program slip behind for a few years. So do you take that into account? Dabao was also got national championships on his resume and not just like, ha, they won one. And then, you know, they’re done. Like dabo was putting together like
Stephen Means (40:13.429)
Like yesterday, like yesterday they started eating.
Andrew (40:38.594)
war machines that were beating the best of the SEC, right? They were beating the Georges and they were beating the Bama’s and they were beating the Ohio States. Like they were beating everybody. And it wasn’t just like, hey, they got lucky in a weird year. He had, he had weaponry ready to go. So that to me would have been the interesting conversation where it’s like, okay, would you rather dabo now or dabo?
like overall, Dava was the one that I was gonna have a hard time.
Stefan Krajisnik (41:10.032)
The with the top, problem with Dabo would have been, almost feels like he won his national titles in like a different sport. It almost feels like he won a different era. It’s like, it’s like, does less miles deserve to be number two on the list? Cause you want a national title in a completely different era of football. You know, like it almost, it almost feels like Dabo is it’s just, the sports aren’t the same anymore. It’s like, I mean, Phil Jackson, when he came back with the Knicks, like a decade ago or so, was not good.
Stephen Means (41:28.811)
Yeah. Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (41:39.77)
It was not what he was with the Lakers and the Bulls. You know what I mean?
Stephen Means (41:41.249)
Great example. That’s a great example. Was anybody when he was the GM of the next going, remember he’s got 10 NBA titles? No, they were going, dude, you’re messing up Carmelo Anthony’s prime. Stop doing it.
Stefan Krajisnik (41:51.824)
Running out of time.
Hahaha
Stephen Means (41:57.887)
I think he’s four.
And I think he dragged himself down the floor. It’s his fault why he’s four. Yeah. He allowed that to happen to himself more than I think the two guys who are above him did anything. Well, actually one of the guys we’re going to have, we would have had above him has a head that well, they are one and one against each other. So I guess that counts with each other though. I think Brett Lashley is in the Danielson.
Andrew (42:06.1)
He attached the weights to himself and then ran the race.
Stephen Means (42:30.699)
place where it’s just…
Stefan Krajisnik (42:32.378)
He’s somewhere between Danielson and Dillingham.
Stephen Means (42:35.253)
And it doesn’t help that it wasn’t a great showing for SMU in the…
Stefan Krajisnik (42:38.638)
I was just going to say where is signetti on this list before the Nordame came.
Stephen Means (42:42.921)
I mean, I think him and Freeman are like, yo, let’s rock.
Andrew (42:46.926)
He man, he Kurt signetti really made me feel worse about him as a coach after that, because we don’t have to talk about him a ton because you know, they lost but man, I had a really high low. I had a really high outlook on signetti and then they played that game and I went, oh boy.
Stefan Krajisnik (43:06.778)
I think we saw a bit with like Lashley, Signetti, some of those coaches who lost in the first round of Hypole even it’s like, you are good. You got your teams to this spot. You haven’t played in this set. You haven’t had to make, you haven’t had to make a fourth quarter decision in these games yet. You know, and that’s something that a lot of these coaches who haven’t been at this level have to learn, right? Like think about Ryan Day and we talked so much about late game decisions. You know, he’s got experience in those. He goes into his playoffs, haven’t been there. Dan Landon comes into the playoffs, you know, having
been there, done that. We’re talking about coach like Lashley. Lashley, I Signetti’s, I mean, Hypal made a pretty soft punt, almost identical to what Signetti did. And it’s like, these coaches haven’t been like in these spots yet. And maybe in three years we look back and we’re like, you know, Hypal has never done that again. You know, he’s learned from that. but it’s, but it’s definitely interesting watching some of these coaches, you know, we’ll see what Dillingham in a few, few, few days of like when they’re in this spot and this is different when it’s winner go home is way different.
It’s interesting to see how some of these coaches either cower or rise to the occasion. We’ve seen coaches be huge in moments like
Stephen Means (44:12.961)
I think coming into the playoff, Hypal, Signetti, Freeman, and Franklin were all, in my mind, the same race, fighting the same fight.
But you can’t tuck your tail in the only two games where you played a lively opponent before the before it was even out of control. After talking about the smack when the game wasn’t even out of control yet, it was still a football game. It’s just one bet you got it was it was very much everybody’s got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. You hit you got one hard hit to the ribs and we’re like, yeah, I’m not built for this. And seriously, why’d you get in the ring? Go home, man.
Andrew (44:33.61)
after talking a bunch of smack.
Stephen Means (44:56.705)
So he gets down. I’d be liable to put him at 12 just because of that. Cause I feel like as a fan base, you’re happy cause this is the best season that you’ve ever had. So it is what it is. But at the same time, if he was at any other program who hasn’t been in that much of a football poverty situation, they would have been looking at him differently coming out of that. But because of where he’s at, it gets to get spun in Indiana as what a great first step for the Hoosiers, which it is, it’s still that.
Don’t tuck your tail after you talk trash. I think I’m going to give Hypo grace because Ohio State might legitimately be back in the one a one B them in Oregon conversation. They just don’t know how to figure out their rival. And we’re going to be talking about Ohio State in Oregon, breaking that down when we come back from Christmas. And I’ve rewatched that game like twice in the past 48 hours. And I’m just like,
I don’t know how Ohio State lost the game. I don’t know how Oregon won the game. But also if things have been flipped, if they would have actually gotten the field goal off in Ohio State won Ohio State in Oregon lost. I’ve been like, how Oregon lose this game? I don’t know how they win this game. It was that close.
Stefan Krajisnik (46:10.928)
There has been a vocal section of Twitter recently, maybe I’ve just been exposed to Oregon Twitter, where they’re like, hey, Ohio State’s looking at this game being like we should have won and Oregon’s kind of looking at this being like, how did we not win by more?
Stephen Means (46:21.194)
But everybody or both sides can be like, did we not blow this team out? But also how did we not lose by more?
Stefan Krajisnik (46:27.204)
Maybe that’s just what happens in a close football game.
Stephen Means (46:29.377)
That’s what happens. Amazing to watch. But back to this, I give Hypo Grace, cause he’s also beaten Saban before. And I was like, Bryce Young Saban, right? And then he beat Alabama this year. And I think there’s an opening for him right now where things stand. I don’t know who number three is in the SEC in terms of coaching hierarchy off the top of my head. know number one is Curly Kirby. Number two is probably Sarkeesian.
I don’t know who number two, three is right now. And Josh Hyple, I think set a foundation this year where he could easily take that spot. And quite frankly, I don’t think that’s a Sarkeesian spotted number two is completely safe from Hyple. One’s got their quarterback coming back. The other one’s got a manning who’s gonna start that everybody thinks is good just because his last name is Manning, but we’re not all the way sure about that yet.
Okay, back to the list. Sarcassians 4 for me.
Stefan Krajisnik (47:32.144)
That’s what I had as well.
Stephen Means (47:34.643)
Okay. 37.
Stefan Krajisnik (47:36.524)
And I understand he’s, you know, he’s done great things at Texas. Texas is back because of him. and I gave him, you know, he’s made a playoff, which I know there’s a coach up on this list that hasn’t, but at the same time, he made that playoff winning a big 12 title in a year where Oklahoma wasn’t that good. And then he got to the playoff and lost to Washington.
Stephen Means (47:57.12)
I agree.
Stefan Krajisnik (48:02.338)
But he has beaten Nick Saban. Sarc’s a good coach. I’m not denying that. I just think three coaches ahead of him are just better.
Stephen Means (48:09.441)
He’s a heck of a schemer, man. I love his offenses. Andrew, you agree he’s number four? Okay. He got 41.4, excuse me, 41.5 % of the fourth place vote, 22.7 % of the third place vote, 19.8 % of the fifth place vote. He only got one first place, but Marcus Freeman had more first place votes than Steve Sarkisian did, which is interesting to me.
That happened.
Andrew (48:39.192)
That just feels to me like he’s maybe the hot new thing, right? Like he just won a playoff game, he’s right there, he’s on the rise. Martin Notre Dame has won 11 games in a row.
Stephen Means (48:51.989)
This is a Buckeye fan texture.
Stefan Krajisnik (48:52.432)
I think we’ve, I was going to say, I think we’ve got listeners and voters who are probably, you know, pretty big fans of Marcus Freeman.
Andrew (48:59.179)
That’s a fair point.
Stephen Means (48:59.201)
Yeah. So before we get into two and three and we have a day landing discussion, landing day discussion, there’s, here’s the gaps everywhere. Spencer Danielson is the clear number eight to our texture. 7.15 is his overall score. And then James Franklin and Kenny Dillingham already grouping. They’re at a table together. James Franklin is 6.17 and Kenny Dillingham is 6.59. So that’s a grouping.
And then four and five is another grouping. Steve Sarkisian’s at 4.17 and Marcus Freeman’s at 4.92. So there’s the next grouping. Kirby’s on an island by himself, 1.75. He is the only one with an overall score that is two or lower.
Stephen Means (49:47.457)
I know where Andrew is. Stefan, what do you have? Two, three.
Stefan Krajisnik (49:55.372)
Yeah, I back and forth and I have written on my list, Ryan Day, number two and Dan landing number three. I’m very open to having that debate. And I did like maybe three minutes ago, tell myself that Dan landing is number two and Ryan days, number three, because I thought about head to head. thought about that game we watched and I thought it was a game in which Dan landing did out coach late in the game, out coached right day. So I get that.
Stephen Means (50:06.304)
Okay.
Stefan Krajisnik (50:23.95)
Yeah, I’m very torn on it. think both guys are at good programs. Both guys have have done really good things at both programs, right? Oregon’s undefeated number one seed, but it is their first time in the playoff. But I do give Dan Lanny the grace of he has early in his tenure and I think he inherited a slightly worse situation than what Ryan Day inherited. don’t think, you know, Dan Lanny walked into Arizona State or Indiana, but you know, he didn’t walk into Ohio State either. So
I think maybe now I’m talking myself in the landing. don’t know. I want to hear what you guys have to say because I was very torn on who’s two and who’s three.
Andrew (50:56.386)
So for-
Stephen Means (50:57.164)
Well, no, go ahead, Andrew. Go ahead.
Andrew (50:59.704)
I was going say that two, two of the big factors for me with landing and I contrary to what you guys might believe, even if I say it, you’re not going to believe it. did consider day at two. but two things.
Stephen Means (51:11.709)
I did consider dating other people before I settled down with this one.
Andrew (51:16.526)
I looked at two things. looked at.
Stephen Means (51:20.959)
I first of all, I know that Andrew’s father listens to this podcast. Shout out to Andrew’s dad. And he knows why Andrew knows why. You know the Dan landing joke, that’s why.
Andrew (51:26.118)
yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (51:31.812)
Yes, shout out.
Andrew (51:32.33)
Yeah, my dad, my I showed up. Yeah, we showed I showed up for Christmas and, you know, I was talking to my parents about the press conference we had. My dad was making fun of me for how much I love Dan Lanning and.
Stephen Means (51:43.361)
you
Stefan Krajisnik (51:46.308)
I worry that there’s a like an autographed day landing football or the tree waiting for you. That’s the best people are listening to this podcast. Or a cameo from day landing. Hey, Andrew.
Andrew (51:52.854)
That would be really funny. That would be a really funny bit. I hope Santa’s good. the, the, okay.
Stephen Means (52:02.104)
You gotta give Dan when we’re in LA at their media day you have to go up and give Dan landing a hug He’s gonna like what are you doing? But you should just give him a hug and say thank you. Thank you for validating all of my feelings Yeah
Andrew (52:08.833)
A hug?
Well, think so quick sidebar, quick sidebar before we do this, when we were at Big Ten Media Days, Oregon was the most interesting, like Oregon and Michigan were the most interesting non Ohio State teams there. So we, we showed up and we, think Lanning was last like of the entire Big Ten Media Day circuit. So we were like all there. Like we were like all over at Lanning and Steven and I are asking a bunch of recruiting questions.
Stephen Means (52:25.137)
easily.
Andrew (52:41.618)
And Jimmy Watkins, our columnist, rather reporter was asking a bunch of like program building questions, because like we kind of like, obviously, they were going to play in a couple of weeks. But we saw kind of this writing on the wall of like, Oregon might be it. Dan looked at both of Jimmy and I’s like, I think it was Jimmy first, he looked at like his like, I is like media pass, kind of like squinted a little bit to be like, who in the world is asking me all these questions about Ohio State? Like who in the world is asking me about
You know, building a program and Ohio state recruiting and Ryan day and all this other stuff. So that was funny. the reason, the two big reasons that I have landing in this kind of spot. Number one, Dan landing won the game earlier this year. I think that that has to play at least a little bit of a factor.
it’s not like this is Dan Lanning’s first year and it’s, well, he’s building things like Dan Lanning’s in his third year now. Like this is the best Oregon team that he’s had. And this is supposed to be the best Ohio state team that Ryan day has had and landing one. And yeah, you could say, well they were at home and they had that.
I thought landing out coach day at the end of the game and specifically that Polish goal line call like with like 10 seconds left where they sent the extra defender out there. That to me was just really, really, really, really impressive because it’s been a thing in football for decades. Like buddy Ryan, I think invented it. Like this wasn’t like something that just popped up because like Dan used it. Like Dan didn’t make it. Landing didn’t create this, but
Buddy Ryan used it decades ago and it worked. And it’s like been in playbooks for decades and he just operated it at the right time. that was really impressive and they had to come out with a rule to fix it. And the other thing too, is that when you talk about Oregon, one of the things and the big criticisms of Lanning going into this year was, well, his biggest rival is Washington.
Andrew (54:57.206)
and they lost on the road at Washington last year. And then it was, okay, well, they play them again in the Pac-12 championship game. They can get them back. And they lost that one too. And this year they stomped a bad Washington team. And Washington was great last year. And I think that that has to matter. I think that that proves something to me with Lanning. Maybe it doesn’t for you guys, I don’t know. It proves something to me with Lanning that…
You have a six and six Washington team and Dan Lanning’s not in his own head when he plays his rival. Dan Lanning’s able to curb stomp his rival in fact. Washington beat Michigan and Oregon stomped the Huskies and Ryan Day can’t get out of his own way with Michigan. Yeah, Oregon also beat Michigan at Michigan. But my point is there is a mental block.
Stephen Means (55:45.427)
Oregon also beat Michigan at Michigan.
Andrew (55:56.012)
I think it’s clear to say with Ohio State and Ryan Day when it comes to the Michigan Wolverines. And that is our whole point. And that is, think the point of a lot of people when they say Ohio State can win a national championship because maize and blue is not on the other sideline, because whatever happens in that game, there’s a mental thing now. Dailings don’t have that. And I think that when you talk about just who would you want as a coach in a lot of different scenarios, those two things mattered to me.
And I think when you look at where Lanning has taken this program, his first game that they coached, he coached against the eventual national title winners against Georgia. They lost by 46 points. They lost 49 to three. And now he’s the number one team in the country and the only undefeated coach and the only undefeated program. He’s taken them from, yeah, they’re pretty good to, oh, this team is the best team in college football.
Stephen Means (56:49.057)
Okay.
Stephen Means (56:53.249)
So we’re 1-1 right now with landing and dive.
Stephen Means (57:00.161)
I’ll say the textures vote for loss because I also have some theories of why the textures voted the way they voted.
To your point of Stefan, it’s not like he took over Indiana. Oregon was fine. In fact, the coach who was at Oregon before Dan Lanning also beat Ohio State and they did it in Columbus. So take out COVID year. COVID’s weird for everybody who’s not Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State, because they were the three best programs in college football at the point, which is why that’s how that played out.
Mario Cristobal fixed Oregon for Dan Lanning. Cristobal is the guy before the guy.
His first, because the year before, so here’s Chip Kelly on. Chip Kelly takes over as the head coach in 2009 for Mike Bellotti, who had already kind of gotten Oregon at the, so we were having this conversation on a meeting. I’m sorry, I’m all over the place right now. We were having our conversation on our Monday meeting about Oregon and Blue Bloods and all that different stuff, as if Oregon was just some throwaway team before Chip Kelly got there. No, they were not. They were a decent college football program.
They were just in a same conference as USC. So they were fine. They had some good years and they had some bad years. They were just kind of up and down. Mike Boulody’s second to last year, they go nine and four and then they go 10 and three. And then Chip Kelly takes over and that’s when the cool factor of the jerk, that’s when Phil Knight really got involved in a public way with the program. But that’s also when social media started to take off. So maybe Oregon was always like that. We just notice it more because social media existed at that point.
Stephen Means (58:47.787)
Chip Kelly was running these cool offensive things.
Stefan Krajisnik (58:50.774)
Also media in general, mean we’re watching games more than ever before.
Stephen Means (58:53.897)
Right. Right. So Bill Knight could have been doing this essentially since Michael Jordan took Nike stock and took a cannon to it. But we just didn’t notice it until the late 2000s. 10 and three second year, Chip Kelly, they go 12 and one and they reached the BCS national championship game and lose. They go 12 and two the following year and win the Rose Bowl and one the following year when the Rose Bowl and then Mark Helferich takes over as Chip Kelly leaves and goes to the NFL.
They go 11 and two 13 and two on recent national championship. And then that’s when the, I was winning with the guy before me. His players wears off nine and four, four and eight. He gets fired. Willie Taggart takes over in 2017. He goes seven and five and gets, and then he’s out of there. Mario Cristobal coaches in the bowl game. And then he takes over his first year as the head coach Oregon with 12 and two. then COVID got in the way. Had COVID not gotten in the way.
he would have gotten on the field and hosted Ohio State in 2020. And now given how the 2021 game played out, I think that’s an interesting game now, because they were a decent team. They had Kavon Thibodeau at that point. Ohio State had Justin Fields, Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave. That 2020 game now was a big what if. I think for both programs, for where Chris DeVall seemed to be taking that program, where Ohio State with Ryan Day in year two,
might’ve been taking his program, that’s a what if. Instead, Ohio State, the Blue Bloods, who gets to the national championship game, that game never gets played. Mario Cristobal goes four and three. Then he gets right back on the horse. They go 10 and three the following year, so they’re right back in it. He just leaves for Miami. And so at the right time, when Georgia had just spent two years, excuse me, I just spent 2021 having one of the greatest defenses we’ve ever seen. And guess who their DC is?
Dan Lanny. So Oregon’s those just take this guy. Come on over here. Ten and three in your one holiday bowl quality first season, especially when you think about the fact that they got their doors blown off by Georgia in the first game. That’s a tough first game. Playing the reigning national champions on a quote unquote neutral field, aka Atlanta. I don’t know how Georgia keeps playing neutral field games in Atlanta, but it’s what they’re doing. That’s. You know.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:01:17.242)
Can I interest you in a national championship game?
Stephen Means (01:01:21.601)
while also playing in the Peach Bowl. it’s, that’s a tough way to start things off. And I think it was never going to be a good way to gauge a first impression of whether or not Dan Lennie was going to work at Oregon. The other games on the schedule are, and they go 10 and three overall that year, great step. They go 12 and two the next year, where I think for the first time those Washington games showed off what his flaw is.
And I’m going to bring this up on when we start talking about Ohio State Oregon later this week. That game showed me all of Ohio’s Ryan Day and Dan Lanning strengths. It also showed me their flaws. And then it became about who maximized their strengths more and who had to pay more for their flaws. And I think Ryan Day had to pay more for his flaws against Oregon, which is why Oregon ultimately won that game.
Head to head matters with these two. So that’s a point for Dan Lanning, I agree with Andrew. I’m also going to put Dan Lanning higher because Dan Lanning isn’t on the hot seat. He’s not even close to the hot seat.
Stephen Means (01:02:37.375)
We don’t know. Yeah, go ahead.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:37.53)
Can I say something on that specifically? One reason that I thought about maybe putting landing two ahead of day is because when we do talk about day on the hot seat, who is undoubtedly the guy we always say has to be your number one call.
Andrew (01:02:52.832)
Yep, exactly that. Yep, exactly. I was waiting to bring this point up. If Ryan Day is no longer the coach here, everybody is going to say they need to call Dan Lanning and make him say no.
Stephen Means (01:03:02.955)
The two people who are above them, two people above him on this list are the people you have to make tell you now.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:03.332)
But my counter to that though is.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:08.452)
Yes. But my counter to that in my own mental dialogue was, okay, you fire a day. Landing is your first call. If landing is the number one, the only guy you really think is better than day. Do you, it worth firing day? Like at that point, do you, do you say, well, I think Ryan day is better than landing. So why wouldn’t I just keep Ryan day?
Stephen Means (01:03:30.323)
No, but that’s a different conversation. That’s more about Ryan Day than about the idea of these two. The point is, Dan Lanning isn’t even close to coaching for his job. In fact, he’s going to go into the 80s office and go time for that extension, buddy. I don’t think Ryan Day is actually coaching for his job at this point, because if he was, they wouldn’t be getting some of the transfer portal additions they’re getting. They got the best tight end.
in the portal from Purdue.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:04:01.584)
And kind of made like a they weren’t necessarily even early on him. Like you see guys come in, it’s like, oh yeah, he entered the portal schools, got him right away. Like there was other schools in the mix for Max, Max, Claire, and I think kind of came in was like, come here.
Stephen Means (01:04:06.036)
No.
Stephen Means (01:04:11.478)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (01:04:15.041)
That developed very quickly over the past like four or five days here. So every move that’s happening about putting together the 2025 roster suggests that Ohio State’s not firing Ryan Day. Now, granted, there’s a reason why a lot of these moves happened on Monday evening, the week after they just blew out a SEC team in a college football playoff game, right? But it helps, but still. So if one guy’s coach…
But if one guy is at least having, we’ve had a conversation in the past month about whether or not he might lose his job and the other one, you would sound like an idiot to even think about that. Then the one guy’s gotta be harder than the other guy, regardless of everything else.
Andrew (01:04:59.422)
I think that goes into my commentary about Washington, where that’s why we’re having this conversation about Day, right? Like if Ohio State was playing Oregon in the playoff and they had beaten Michigan, we wouldn’t be saying any of this. I think we just said the same thing in different ways, where I said Ryan Day has a mental block against Michigan, whereas Dan Lanning got rid of that against Washington.
Stephen Means (01:05:15.659)
Would Ryan Day be hired? Okay. Right.
Yeah, but even that’s not the same level of a rivalry man. That’s not Oregon and Washington are rivals. Yes, I’m not taking away from that. They are not rivals away Ohio State and Michigan.
Andrew (01:05:26.533)
of course, of course.
Andrew (01:05:31.446)
Yeah, no, no, no. And just to be clear, no level of rivalry is the same as Ohio State, Michigan.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:05:31.972)
That’s not us. That’s not us.
There’s not a single Oregon fan that would tell you, I’d rather win a national title than beat Washington. Right.
Andrew (01:05:42.186)
I agree. A hundred percent. Yeah. Ohio state Michigan is number one on the list for every rivalry and sports. Yeah. Right.
Stephen Means (01:05:45.919)
Yeah, there’s not a John Cooper at Oregon who’s just remembered for not beating Washington.
Andrew (01:05:53.942)
Yeah, there’s coaches that are remembered for not winning national championships despite getting there or despite, you know, making runs at it. It’s not the same, but.
Stephen Means (01:05:59.009)
Right.
Stephen Means (01:06:04.895)
I think that’s why Dan Lening was hired for our Texas because as a fan base, you are maybe at the lowest point leaning towards I’m out on Ryan Day. So if I’m out on my head coach and the options in a ranking are the guy I am starting to not like very much as my head coach in the guy who beat him and is currently
the head coach of the number one, an only undefeated team in college football, you lean that way. And so what happened was, I was really interested to see where the split was going to be. Dan Landon got 42.5 % of the number two votes. He got 26.6 % of the third place votes. Ryan Day got 35.3 % of the second place votes.
And he got 33.8 % of the third place votes. And he got 15 % of the fourth place votes. Dan Lanning got 10.6 % of the first place votes. So number four, and then here’s number one. First place votes, Dan Lanning got 17.4, Ryan Day got 9.7. So one and four is where people started to split off about. Because I would bet that people who had Dan Lanning number one, along with the oversight of the Kirby Smart thing, probably had Ryan Day at number four.
Dan Lanning was also the only coach who did not get an eighth place vote.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:07:40.826)
So can I ask a question that, so the consensus is Dan landing to Ryan day three. And maybe this, maybe we can send this out to our textures as well, because I’d be interested to hear is the, I think two or three is very close. It sounds like you guys both think that it’s pretty close. I think our textures thought it was pretty close. Is this Rose bowl enough? Whoever wins is number two. No doubt.
Stephen Means (01:07:45.846)
Yes.
Stephen Means (01:07:58.561)
Overall.
Stephen Means (01:08:03.489)
Cool.
Stephen Means (01:08:07.329)
So here’s their scores. No, I’m not, that’s fine. 2.41 for Dan Lanning and 2.81 for Brian Day with their scores. I don’t agree with that, Andrew. They won by one point.
Andrew (01:08:08.354)
I need to see how the game happens, but maybe.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:08:11.918)
I don’t… a win is a win at that point.
Stephen Means (01:08:23.943)
at home. They won by so to say I need to see how the game have this game might play out the exact same way as the first meeting where the winner wins by 123 points. That’s in fact, that’s my expectation. If you win this game by 10 plus points, wow. For either side. So I don’t the game is gonna hit.
I don’t know what my score is yet, but I know that I expect Oregon to throw some haymakers and knock Ohio State down. I expect Ohio State to throw some haymakers and knock Oregon down. And it’s about who can get to the 12th round.
and stay on their feet. Who can land the most jobs and the most haymakers? To answer your question, Stefan.
You’re essentially asking, do we put more weight on a neutral site game where everything is even and everything is on the line versus a road game in the middle of October?
Stefan Krajisnik (01:09:26.105)
Yeah, I’m asking this is everything between these two coaches so similar that one game can kind of sway. Cause I don’t think one coach is necessarily recruiting way better than another coach. I don’t think one coach is necessarily that much better in terms of building a program and sustaining a program, things of that nature. Recruiting obviously is a big part of it. So is, is, on field head to head. Is that what’s separating those two coaches right now?
Stephen Means (01:09:36.149)
Right.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:09:55.151)
Dale Annie’s one and a
Stephen Means (01:09:57.867)
Probably, yeah, probably. I think.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:10:04.88)
Because think about also, since those teams have met, Oregon’s kind of cruised through an easy schedule. Ohio State, I understand they lost to Michigan. That is not a good thing. Ohio State won at Penn State. They beat a top five Indiana team. They curb stomped a top 10 Tennessee team. Oregon won the big 10 game. I’ll give them that. They beat Penn State on a neutral field. Are we counting?
You know at Michigan, you know what we have to give. We have to give him credit for Michigan. We have to give because right they lost Michigan.
So I don’t know. Have things been even enough since those coaches met for me to say, or for you guys to say, Brian Day beats him in the Rose Bowl at Neutral Field in the playoff. He’s the better coach.
Stephen Means (01:10:50.197)
I think there’s something to be said about the fact that this is going to be the fifth time Ohio State’s played a team who was in the college football playoff field.
and they’re playing the best of those teams for a second time. only two of those games have been in their own backyard. I think there is something to be said about, did Ohio State’s schedule kind of forge something with them that Oregon’s schedule just was never going to be able to do. And it’s not all the way their fault, right? mean, Michigan was in the national championship game last year and they just, you they weren’t there. Washington was in that.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:11:26.073)
of Washington.
Andrew (01:11:27.37)
Oregon did play three playoff teams to be fair. played Boise, Ohio State and Penn State in the Big Ten title.
Stephen Means (01:11:34.259)
Okay, and the other one played five. So like that’s what we’re, it’s,
So this is going to be the fifth time Ohio State is playing a team who is currently in the college football playoff field.
Indiana, Penn State, Oregon, and…
Andrew (01:11:49.791)
Yeah, it’s not a stark difference. It’s four and five for Oregon and Ohio State.
Stephen Means (01:11:56.277)
Okay.
Stephen Means (01:12:00.425)
Ohio State schedule is very much more difficult than the Oregon schedule. That’s not even a competition. So that’s the point that was being made there.
Andrew (01:12:03.288)
Yeah, I think so.
Stephen Means (01:12:12.191)
I’m inclined to say yes.
But also, let me expound on this.
In 2008, who’d you think was the better coach in the SEC, Urban Meyer or Nick Saban? Now that answer is clear. Nick Saban’s won a bunch of national team. Okay. When Florida and Alabama were, we gotta go through each other every year. Wasn’t that fun? And it’s also how the SEC built its reputations on the backs of those two guys.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:12:30.192)
2008 is probably Urban Meyer.
Stephen Means (01:12:50.505)
and just say two guys who currently work in the media. Now, Kirby Smart helped that out, obviously. And then, Giron getting Joe Burrow. No, sorry, hiring the right OC to unlock apparently Joe Burrow, the franchise quarterback. That helps, but this all comes back to Nick Saban and Urban Meyer spent like four or five years there fighting each other every single year, and the winner was often competing in a national championship game.
I’m wondering if the Big Ten’s about to get their version of that. If Ryan Day can figure this out. And you got Ryan Day versus Dan Lanning. And every year…
It kinda just runs through those two.
And I would say this is not, I’m not basing this off of what they’re going to turn into and wins. And this is just simply based off of stylistically standpoint. I think Dan landing is more like urban Meyer while Ryan days more like Nick Saban. At least it seems like he’s turning into more of that. No, Nick Saban. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what I’m saying.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:13:56.368)
In terms of kind of how they operate and carry themselves.
Stephen Means (01:14:01.505)
So I think it’s gonna, it would be fun. That’s why it’s really annoying that Ohio State lost to Michigan, because that lost some steam when you lose to a six and five Michigan team. This was supposed to be three times potentially these guys play each other. And now we’re only gonna get two, but it’s fine. But I think Eileen, yes, Steph, I think it’s a good, I think it’s a moment to plant a flag in a way that I don’t know if a regular season, yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:14:27.856)
What are California’s laws on the matter?
Stephen Means (01:14:28.987)
Yeah, let’s make sure nobody’s committing a felony of birth. But I do think this game is more of a flag plant game than an October 12th. And it’s not to devalue that game. Oregon won that game. But road teams winning and then winning, anybody winning in a neutral side game does always have a little bit more oomph to it.
So I would say yes.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:14:50.66)
I was gonna say, can you name a time Urban and Nick faced off in a regular season? You can tell me that after every game.
Stephen Means (01:14:56.897)
I don’t think so. Not at the top of my head.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:15:02.446)
Yeah, and that’s I guess the benefit of.
Andrew (01:15:04.098)
They, well yeah, they played in SEC Championship games before, but I don’t know about the regular season.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:15:08.844)
I mean, maybe they haven’t, but I imagine at some point they met in the regular season.
Stephen Means (01:15:15.457)
But this is the SEC championship game is one that that people remember the most. I think, I don’t know. That’s just my comparison. If they can get this thing back on track, I think the big tens got their urban Meyer, Nick Saban and made the best man win. And I mean that in every capacity. mean, in an IL, I mean on the transfer portal, I mean on the recruiting trail and I mean on the football field. And it’s kind of a back and forth even on the transfer portal right now, because I don’t know.
Oregon might have been in on Max Claire, but also I know Ohio State was in on Dylan Thiemann. So it kind of goes both ways.
But yeah, this is our list. Kirby Smart, Dan Lanning, Ryan Day, Steve Sarkeesian, Marcus Freeman, James Franklin, Kenny Dillingham, Spencer Danielson.
That’s a fine list. The only one I disagree with, I would put Dinah at six, but, you know, I get it.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:16:09.872)
2010 regular season meeting between Florida and Alabama. I found it.
Stephen Means (01:16:13.312)
Who won?
Stefan Krajisnik (01:16:17.246)
Alabama with ease 31 6.
Stephen Means (01:16:19.073)
So Nick Saban won it. 31 to 6. Urban, what is going on?
Stefan Krajisnik (01:16:22.223)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:16:23.106)
Yeah, that was that was the last year. That was the last year of of Meyer. My cuz Meyer was remember he that was his last year he didn’t coach in 2011 and then.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:16:25.168)
That was his last year,
Stephen Means (01:16:27.358)
so he is already-
Stephen Means (01:16:31.888)
yeah, so he was already got stalled all the way. Okay Well, okay. So that was Nick Sam and going goodbye my conference now
Andrew (01:16:41.282)
Yeah. Yeah. And in 08, Meyer be saving in the SEC championship game. And then in the next year, you know, nine and Florida won the title in 08. And then in the next year, Bama stomped them in the SEC title game. So maybe we’re just headed for that where it’s just give and take every year we’re headed for one year’s Oregon, one year’s Ohio state.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:17:01.55)
That was also an era where, correct me if I’m wrong, but that was an era where if you lost the SEC title game, you weren’t going to get a rematch in the championship. Right. Right. Now we, now in this era, I mean, it could set up where we do see Dan Lanning versus Ryan Day every year, maybe multiple times.
Andrew (01:17:09.304)
The SEC title game was a playoff game, just not formally. Yeah.
Stephen Means (01:17:09.651)
Right. Yeah.
Stephen Means (01:17:20.961)
Sign me up. I’m all for it. I’m for it. I think that’s the best. It’s good for the Big Ten. It’s good for Oregon. It’s good for Ohio State. It’s good for both of those fan bases. Sign me up. For those two having to go through each other. That’s when sports rivalries are fun. When they’re not like the built-in culturalistic ones. We know Ohio State, Michigan ones. The other fun rivalries are the ones that are era specific.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:17:25.082)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (01:17:50.239)
right in basketball, Stephen Curry, LeBron James, Magic and Bird, right? We just talked about Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, Brady versus Manning. Like these are just, yeah, Dabo versus Saban. This is because these are about this time period and it’s how you define an era. And if Ryan Day can get this thing back on track and Dan Lanning continues on the trajectory that he has Oregon on, this is fun for everybody.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:17:59.962)
Dava vs Sabin
Stephen Means (01:18:20.181)
because yeah, you’ve got the culture rivalry, but also you got two programs, two fan bases, two cultures carrying the Big Ten while like peeking over. You’re okay, what they doing over there? they won this battle, but we won this battle. we got this five star. They got that five star. Okay, they’re in IELTS like this, ours is like this. okay, cool, cool. What’s our athletic director doing to upgrade our facilities? Okay, what’s their athletic director doing to upgrade their facilities? That’s fun. And it was supposed to be USC.
but they can’t seem to, I think USC is just done. I think it’s over. It was a good run. The 30 for 30 doc will always have, will always have Reggie Bush and Matt Lennard and on down the list there, Dwayne Jarrett. I think that’s done, that’s cooked. Pete Carroll.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:19:09.978)
Carol.
Stephen Means (01:19:14.197)
I think that’s good.
I don’t think that can, I don’t think that, that’s a pod for another day. For now it’s Ohio State in Oregon next Wednesday in the Rose Bowl in what could be the beginning of a wonderful, wonderful era based rivalry. Get the text 614-350-3315 two week free trial, 399 after that. Merry Christmas to all who celebrate except Stefan, cause he doesn’t celebrate until.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:19:19.824)
for another day.
Stephen Means (01:19:46.793)
late January, which is fine. I just didn’t know that until I met you, so that’s cool.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:19:50.0)
Early January. Yeah. I don’t want, I don’t want everyone to think I’m anti religion.
Stephen Means (01:19:53.823)
No, no, I said you celebrate Christmas. It’s just that a different day. Yeah, I just, I didn’t know servings had a different Christmas than everybody else. Cool. You learn something new, man, every day. Try to learn something new every single day. Merry Christmas. Thank you so much for a wonderful season. Thank you so much for sticking with us. Thank you so much for the listens, the subscriptions, the texts, the mean emails and DMs and ats on Twitter. Thank you for all of it.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:19:57.594)
Just like, yeah, I’m Serbian, it’s just on a different day.
There you go.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:20:22.64)
Yeah, now you’re just talking to South Carolina fans.
Stephen Means (01:20:24.161)
I am just talking. Well, yeah, it’s a lot of different fan bases who are in my DMs right now. It’s a bit weird, but thank you for all of it. You have no idea how much it’s appreciated. This was fun. We’ll get back to ball talk on Thursday for Stefan Christen and Andrew Gillis. I’m Stephen Means and that was hook I talk.
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